Inside AC Milan and Inter's bid to build 'the best stadium in Europe'

Franco Baresi sits back in his chair and smiles. 'How much time do we have?' he asks.

One of the greatest defenders of all time has been invited to share his thoughts on the San Siro after two decades there as a player with AC Milan, and what it means to him now, 23 years after he hung up his boots.

'San Siro has been all my life for me,' he tells Sportsmail at Casa Milan, the club's plush headquarters in the north-west of the city.

'I spent all of my career in San Siro, since I was 20. It's been my home, where I have experienced all types of emotions and success.

'This stadium represents part of the history of this city, it's a monument and a museum. It has a special place in my heart.'

His final sentence is one which will resonate with every single fan of the Rossoneri - and their great rivals Inter, who have shared the stadium, officially known as the Giuseppe Meazza, for over 70 years.

This, after all, is no ordinary place to watch – or play – football.

The San Siro, with its unique cylindrical towers, incredible height and huge, steep stands, remains an iconic venue not just in the Italian game, but around the world.

Originally opened in 1926, the ground has been added to, improved upon and modernised over nearly a century, but still retains the fervent atmosphere which has helped power the Milan clubs to 28 league titles since they moved in.

It has been home to legends of the game too. Paolo Maldini, Marco van Basten, Ronaldo and Javier Zanetti are among the greats who are not only synonymous with AC and Inter, but the San Siro as well.

'I was 18 years old when I arrived here and when I retired when I was 37,' adds Baresi, who is still affectionately referred to as 'capitano' by club staff after wearing Milan's armband for 15 years.

'I never actually played a final in San Siro, but I had some great games there, including many derbies, which are always special here in Milan.

'I remember many European games in the eighties, especially a game with Real Madrid, which most fans still remember, when we won 5-0. A fantastic game.

'I was lucky enough to have a testimonial game for my retirement. It was a great experience, seeing so much love and respect from everybody – the fans, team-mates, the opposition. It was a great celebration, during which I relived 20 years of my career.'

The long, rich history which Baresi refers to feels almost tangible as you approach the colossal arena, which sits alone, surrounded by a ring of steel and vast areas of tarmac on three sides, and a horse racing track on the other.

On the night Sportsmail visits, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Co are facing Juventus in the first leg of the Coppa Italia semi-finals. Pouring rain does nothing to dampen the spirits of a sell-out crowd, the majority of which are desperate to get one over the dominant force in Italian football.

Although Juve supporters sit freely outside of the curva sud (south curve), which is reserved for Milan's most hardcore fans, there is a whiff of hostility in the air as Stefano Pioli's men attempt to not only take another step towards the final, but also prove that AC are still a force to be reckoned with.

Roared on by their flag-waving, relentless support, some of whom have already been in and around the ground for hours before kick-off, Milan take the game to the champions and are only denied a well-deserved win when a controversial VAR decision allows Cristiano Ronaldo to equalise from the penalty spot.

Boos, whistles and a song about the referee being 's***' ring out from three sides of the stadium as the full-time whistle goes, before the curva sud switch their attention to their own players, applauding their efforts as they head towards the tunnel.

For someone who has never seen a game at the San Siro before, it is quite the experience.

Thousands of football fans, with no affiliation to AC or Inter, travel to Milan each season to get a taste of it for themselves, ticking one of the game's most famous grounds off their stadium bucket list in the process.

But if you fancy doing the same, it's time to start checking your diary. Plans for a new, state-of-the-art stadium, complete with its own sports and entertainment district, are well underway with both clubs hopeful that they could be playing there as early as the 2023-24 season.

But why, given the stadium's heritage, capacity and atmosphere, do they want to spend £1billion to replace it with a ground with 20,000 fewer seats?

'San Siro is an iconic stadium,' Ivan Gazidis, the former Arsenal chief executive and current CEO of AC Milan, tells Sportsmail.

'There's a lot of history in that building and we have a lot of respect for that. But the best way we can honour that history is by creating a future for the club that is absolutely vibrant and is going to embrace and engage the next generation of fans.

'San Siro is just not equipped for that future. The facilities inside the stadium are lacking in lots of different ways. Basic facilities like the toilets.

'Facilities for disabled fans are not what we want them to be. Even though we do a lot of great work in that area, access could be better.'

He has a point. Purchasing food and drink in the third tier of the San Siro, which was added for the 1990 World Cup, is currently impossible, while the toilets in one particular area of the ground were called 'disgusting' during our visit.

Gazidis' view is backed up by Inter Milan CEO Alessandro Antonello, who is working closely with his opposite number to rejuvenate the entire San Siro area, as well as deliver a stunning space to watch football.

'Let me say that there is certainly an emotional attachment to the current San Siro,' he admits. 'You can still have a decent experience during the 90 minutes of the game.

'However, there are many issues. When you go to a new stadium in the UK or in the US, you immediately perceive that you have the opportunity to get to the stadium area in advance, stay two or three hours before the game, spend time with friends and family and enjoy your time.

'Then, you can also stay after the game. It's an experience that is not just limited to the 90 minutes of the game, it is different. As of today, we don't have that opportunity.'

Wander around the San Siro on a matchday and Antonello's words ring true. Other than merchandise stalls and food vans, there is little to entice fans in before kick-off, and nothing to keep them around afterwards.

Security rules mean supporters pass through turnstiles in a huge fence surrounding the ground, then have to walk a significant distance before entering a gate or climbing a ramp up to their seat in the higher tiers.

There is plenty of space around the San Siro, but it is bare and lifeless. Each of the proposed designs for the new stadium - The Cathedral and The Rings of Milan - aim to change that.

'That building (San Siro) has a strong emotional attachment for people, but the new stadium is going to be a better environment to watch football,' Gazidis adds.

'We are going to make sure we preserve all of the best elements of San Siro – the proximity to the pitch, the rake of the stands, the sound will be much better, but we will add to that everything that a modern stadium has.

'When people experience the new stadium, they will understand why the move was made. Until that time then of course the focus is on nostalgia for San Siro.'

Take a closer look at each of the designs for the new stadium and the reasons why Gazidis - and everyone else involved in the project - speak about it with such passion become more apparent.

Formulated by architects Populous, the company behind Tottenham's new stadium, The Cathedral draws inspiration from two of Milan's most recognisable buildings – the Duomo and the Galleria – and results in a stunning glass facade and seating setup which promises to be the most 'intimate' in Europe.

The Rings of Milan, meanwhile, is made up of two interlocking rings to symbolise the Milan clubs, with the faces of more than 16,000 fans displayed around the outside of the stadium. Designed by Sportium/Manica, the company behind the Nou Camp renovation and Wembley, it uses vast numbers of LEDs to switch from red and black, to blue and black, depending on which side is playing at home.

Both clubs gave serious consideration to renovating the San Siro rather than knocking it down and starting again, while Milan's polytechnic university did their own independent study into the proposal and came up with the same conclusion – it just isn't realistic.

'You would probably end up spending just as much money to end up with a stadium which is nowhere near as well constructed and as good as the new stadium could be,' Gazidis says.

'You'd end up with a stadium which was unrecognisable to the current stadium as well – so what's the point?

'There is this incredible opportunity to build a new stadium together which will not just be a beacon for Italian football, but one of – and we believe the best – club stadium in Europe.

'The reason I say that is because of our history of sharing the stadium, it allows us to do things with the new stadium that you won't see anywhere else.

'It's really a unique situation to have two such big clubs in such a big city, such an international city where football is really the dominant social, cultural experience. To do this together really enables us to build a stadium that will be world-leading.'

That may well be the case, but does it justify knocking down the San Siro, a stadium which is steeped in history, from AC and Inter's title-winning campaigns, to two World Cups, a European Championship, and four European Cup finals?

Paolo Scaroni, AC Milan's president, is adamant that building a new stadium is the only way his club – and rivals Inter – can start challenging the likes of Liverpool, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich on the continent once again.

'European clubs with whom AC Milan and Inter Milan compete make over €100million of revenue from their stadium,' he tells Sportsmail. 'AC and Inter currently make €34m. This is one third of what, for example, Arsenal makes.

'How can you compete in a world in which we have Financial Fair Play if you don't have the same source of revenue?

'From my perspective, what I like about San Siro is that you have a good view of the pitch, but all the rest is quite negative and outdated. If the queen comes to see AC Milan, we would only have one room suitable for her.'

It is the lack of seating fit for the queen, as Scaroni puts it with a smile, which has severely dented the matchday income of both Milan clubs in recent years. In contrast, the likes of Juventus, Tottenham and Atletico Madrid have all built new stadiums to cater for their wealthiest fans.

The new stadium will have a capacity of just 60,000 compared to the 80,000 the San Siro currently boasts, but the huge increase in hospitality packages will help generate revenues to rival the richest clubs in Europe.

'If since FFP has been introduced, instead of having €34m of revenue, we would have had €70m more, multiplied by five, this would make €350m of additional revenue,' Scaroni adds.

'I don't know what the owners could have done with this money, but this is the fuel you need to improve the team.'

And improve the team they must. Milan's fall from grace over the last decade has been as swift as it has been shocking.

They reached three Champions League finals in five seasons during the 2000s – winning two of them – but have only managed the quarter-finals once since last lifting the trophy in 2007.

The 2017-18 and 2018-19 campaigns were spent in the Europa League following a three-year spell without any European football, while this season they were banned from competing in Europe after breaching FFP rules.

On the domestic front, it hasn't been much better. It is now over nine years since they last lifted the Serie A title and their final positions from 2013-14 onwards read as follows: 8th, 10th, 7th, 6th, 6th, 5th, 6th.

It has been a similar story for Inter, who have only played in Europe's elite club competition four times since winning it under Jose Mourinho back in 2010. The quarter-finals in 2011 are as good as it's got since, with two of those campaigns ending at the group stage.

That incredible Treble-winning season a decade ago was also the last time they finished top of the pile in Serie A, and while they ended up just a point behind champions Juve last term, it was their first genuine title challenge since way back in the 2010-11 season.

It is that period of underachievement which means the building of a new San Siro is about much more than giving supporters a modern venue in which to watch their teams play. It's about kick-starting a revolution in Milan.

Asked if the stadium is the most important element in Milan's plan to get back on top, Gazidis says: 'A lot of things have to work together to make it happen. The stadium, for me, is the foundational piece, but it's not the only work we have to do.

'I don't like grand promises, this is a journey that we're on, where the right places have to be put into place one after the other, all in the right direction.

'There is the stadium project itself which speaks for itself, then on the football side, we need to take an outward-looking approach to the football we see in Italy.

'If you see what the Premier League have done… it's taking an international outlook, using global experts in their field and bringing them in to work together using modern processes, using analytics, using data, using modern fitness, modern tactics. All of that needs to be aligned.

'We have a massive brand all around the world. Milan is still one of the biggest five clubs in the world in fan following.

'Milan need to play a part - an active and strong part - not just in the Italian game, but also in the European game and the world game. That means actively participating as the discussions are happening on the development of European football, with a seat at the table. All of these different things working together will produce the results that we want to see.

'Clearly the club has been through a difficult period in recent years but the brand is still immensely strong. All of the fundamentals are still there and are primed and ready for the next phase of growth.'

Gazidis' views are shared by Antonello, who believes the new stadium will make Inter an even more attractive destination for top players after they lured a number of Premier League stars – including Romelu Lukaku and Christian Eriksen – to Italy over the last 12 months.

'Obviously, we already have San Siro, which is an iconic stadium - although with its limits and issues, which we are trying to solve with a new stadium,' he says.

'Surely, having a new stadium in a city that is booming and has generally become come attractive in Europe, is an element that players will consider. They will understand that we are one of the top clubs across the globe.

'We want to be back to the top of the game and a new stadium is a key element that is part of our strategy and that can generate more revenue, which can then be invested in new players to reinforce the team and win trophies.'

AC Milan's owners, American investment management firm Elliott, and Inter's owners, Chinese holding company Suning, are both fully behind the ambitious project and are 'completely aligned' in their vision for the future, according to Antonello.

But is spending €1bn on a state-of-the-art stadium still feasible given the financial crisis brought on by the coronavirus pandemic?

Italy has been one of Europe's hardest hit countries, with over a quarter of a million confirmed cases, over 35,000 deaths and a strict national lockdown which lasted for almost three months.

The country's hospitality, food service, retail, art, entertainment and transport sectors have all suffered significantly, while football clubs have had to deal with the economic consequences of having no matchday income, with games either held behind closed doors or cancelled entirely in the lower tiers.

The pandemic raised concerns about the clubs' ability to pay for the stadium – and the sports and entertainment district surrounding it – but Sportsmail understands that it remains full steam ahead on the project, which will be privately financed. The clubs will then use the increased revenue generated by the stadium to make repayments over a number of years.

'This is a key strategic project for the owners,' Antonello adds. 'It is part of our long-term strategy and therefore there is full commitment by the shareholders in order to finalise the project for the club, but also for the city.

'There are two private investors that have decided to come to Italy and make a big investment in the city and into San Siro, and they are fully committed into it.'

That commitment was made clear in May when two fresh designs for the area around the stadium were revealed, seemingly solving perhaps the biggest issue to have arisen during talks between the clubs and the local council.

AC and Inter originally suggested knocking down the current San Siro entirely, but this idea was met with resistance from Milan's mayor, Giuseppe Sala, who was understandably reluctant to see the famous old ground disappear completely on his watch.

After months of discussions between the parties, a compromise appears to be close, with architects Populous and Sportium/Manica both incorporating elements of the stadium in their updated designs.

In The Cathedral, the first tier of the San Siro would be turned into a stunning place for people to play all kinds of sports, while in The Rings of Milan, one end of the same level would form a similar green space for the public to enjoy every day of the week.

'There is a strong emotional attachment to San Siro, because the Meazza Stadium is the Meazza Stadium… they call it "La Scala del Calcio" or "the best place for football" for a reason,' Roberta Guaineri, council member for sports in Milan, tells Sportsmail.

'The teams have a lot of history there, they have won and lost many games, so demolishing it completely was too much for the people and for the citizens to take.

'Therefore, the municipality has asked the clubs to preserve some parts of San Siro and that to create an area that can be used for other sports activities. The clubs agreed and decided to put forward a new project for a new stadium, keeping a substantial part of the current stadium and – something that is particularly important to me for my role – with an area where people can play sports as well as some new attractions for the people.

'It's not only a stadium, that's the really good aspect of it. This is about renovating a whole area, which is now abandoned. It will give the citizens an area that will be lively throughout the whole year.'

This is about a lot more than just a stadium. In May, while unveiling their latest designs, both clubs reiterated their desire to rejuvenate the San Siro area, insisting it was 'essential', particularly given the Covid-19 crisis, to create new jobs and continue the growth in Milan, one of Europe's most booming cities.

But while the plan appears to make perfect sense from an economic and societal standpoint, will some of football's most passionate supporters all be on board with it?

'Leaving San Siro is like breaking up with your girlfriend,' Pietro Balzona Prota, lifelong AC Milan fan and director of Radio Rossonera, tells Sportsmail.

'You're going to be sad for a while, but this doesn't mean that you're not going to fall in love again with someone else.

'It will be sad for all fans. We'll all leave a piece of our heart in San Siro. It's like when you have lived in the same house for 30 years, and then you have to move out.

'I've grown up in San Siro… I would dream to jump over the fence to get in the stadium as a kid and now I've become an adult and, thanks to San Siro, a journalist.

'I am lucky and honoured to talk about AC Milan now as my job, which is something that is possible thanks to that stadium and to everything that I have experienced there.

'I still go there for every single game and to leave it behind is not going to be easy, but it's life. Times change and I don't see any alternative solutions.

'San Siro will forever stay in our hearts and in our memories, but with time fans will learn to love a new stadium – especially if the club goes back to winning.'

Prota's views are not shared by every fan – one Inter-supporting taxi driver lamented the move as 'bull***' during a journey to the San Siro – but it seems the majority favour sticking together in a new home that they would otherwise struggle to afford alone.

If anyone is qualified to have the final word on the biggest decision in the history of Milan's two great clubs, however, it is Italy legend Baresi.

'All due respect to a stadium like San Siro, but the time has come to move on.'

There are still hurdles to overcome, but the making of a new Milan awaits.